Ankit Shukla on How to become a Product Manager

Introduction

Pushpak Mundre  

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Be remote podcast. I’m your host Pushpak. For today’s episode we have with us Ankit Shukla. Ankit, is a product manager at interview bit and scaler Academy. He’s also instructor at Hello PM. And hello Pm is a product manager bootcamp and a premium community of product managers. So thank you so much for joining us today. And I’m super excited to have you on the podcast.

 

Ankit  

Thanks for having me. Pushpak.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

Amazing. So let us you know, get directly to the like questions like How did you got into product management? And, and you know, you have based multiple products as well, before getting into product management. So how did all this started?

 

How Ankit got into product management

 

Ankit

Yeah, okay. Okay, so my journey is like a very non traditional journey, like, product management was not something that I aspired to do, or like, it was not something that was on my checklist. And it was also not very popular when I was graduating when I was completing my MBA. So I was an entrepreneur, while I while in college, I have gone ahead and started one startup, which was incubated in college. And after like two years or so, like within my within my career, so like when I got ahead and done my MBA also, like after two years of that, I have also continued that particular kind of startups. And in like 2017 2018, I have chosen to go ahead and explore what bigger companies looks like. And maybe I should get some kind of experience. And at that period of time, I was having like, since I was like from an ICSE board, or maybe I was from a IIIT. So I know how to code things. And also I was strong at technology. So the first thing that I wanted to do was definitely go ahead and maybe become a full stack developer or something. But because I have the experience of entrepreneur, I thought maybe I would not be doing justice with the kind of thing that I have been doing. So I just gone ahead. And there was a senior who co founded this company known as she rose. So I talked to him, and they were needing exactly kind of the tasks like they were needing the help with exactly the kind of thing that I have been doing. So I’ve gone ahead and join she rose, which was like a social network, but only for women. And I have joined the company, when they were just raising a bit of money, and they have just acquired like a million users on the platform. So I have helped their company like I have created systems, I have created the team. And I have joined them as a head of growth and made sure that the company has grown from around a million users to another 5 million users. I’ve worked for this company for around 18 months. So that is what is the real face when I have gone ahead and understood what exactly product management is what it means about thinking from a user’s angle, and how do you scale product? How do you go ahead and scale your impact. So that wasn’t an after that I joined this company IND money, that similar kind of things over there, just follow different kinds of user set. And recently, I’ve been working with this company known as like scaler Academy introbit, which has like, just like I think today or maybe a week ago, they have raised a new round and they have been valued at $700 million.

 

Pushpak Mundre

Awesome. So, you have multiple product sides. So like before getting into product management. So like are you from a tech background?

 

Ankit 

Yes, yes, I am from a tech background. So, in my class, in my college days also and in my school days, I have been introduced to coding and I was like yeah, so I have a good hand in technical understanding.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

So, why I asked is because like, like there is not a particular course out there to become a product manager right. So, a lot of people I think those who have technical background, they kind of want to get into product managers or product management right, but what about people who are not coming from, you know, tech background, can they also go into product management? So, is there any criteria which you need to know what is the criteria to become a product manager?

 

Criteria to become a product manager

 

Ankit   

Yeah, so I’ll give you a very, very simple mental model to think about the post. So, what happens is that so, let let us ask why by technical people, they go ahead and they become product managers, because what happens is that whatever excuse you have, as a technical that you have, as a technical developer, you can definitely use some of these skills as a product manager, okay, you know, how to work with data, you can think logically you can like thinking some in terms of systems and engineering and also since you your main job is to go ahead and work with developers in your day to day job as a product manager, that also helps out because you have been a developer, so you can empathize with Okay, now, we can take the same principles and apply to any kind of job out there, okay. And right now, product management is one of the good job offerings were no one no matter what kind of background you are coming from, doesn’t matter like you are a marketer, you are a developer, you are a sales guy, you are from business development or any kind of thing, you can definitely go ahead because no matter what you do, there would be around 20 25% of overlap with what a product manager does. So, for example, if you are coming from a marketing background, then you have to make sure that as a as a product manager, you also have to make sure that your product is doing well in the market. So you should be good at market research which these people know they know like how to do channel optimization, how to communicate about the product and if you are coming from maybe a design background, then that is also going to be helpful for you. So no matter what kind of job that you are coming from, if you have problem solving skills, if you have collaboration skills, and if you know how to communicate well with your people, then definitely product management is some thing that you can

 

Pushpak Mundre  

Right So I wanted to get into the specific question about ind money, right? Like, you were leading the team over there, and you grew it from like 10k to 400k users in kind of in 10 months. So how you did this? How was your experience? While?

 

How Ankit grew IND Money from 10k to 400k users in 10 months

 

Ankit  5:18  

Yeah, so, before, before I could get into the specifics of like how I’ve grown the product, I should first tell you what the product is. So the product is like a, it’s like a very beautiful product, which helps solve a real problem as an as a as an investor or as someone who has invested in multiple places or have their place as their money at multiple places, it’s definitely a problem for you to go ahead and look at your real time network as in what is your financial standing right now, okay. So, for example, you might have invested in mutual funds, you might have invested in direct equity, you might have an FD you might have a home or something. So, it was very difficult for you or or people like you to go ahead and see what my net worth is today, and that is going to be like a very important factor in your financial life as a whole because it is going to determine how your next steps are going to look like and what your financial stability is currently. So, that product was solving that problem and I have given you the problem statement, because no matter how good you are a marketer how good performance marketer you are, how good as a product manager, if you do not understand the problem that you are looking at, if you do not understand the user who’s facing that problem, then definitely you cannot create like a long term growth set. So, once we have understood this, then we have gone ahead and we have understood what is the kind of people who should be using this app who could be early adopters, okay. So, we have gone and understood that we should find people who should have a network of at least more than 50 lakh rupees like you should have like a yearly income of more than 50 lakh rupees, they should have their money at like at least five some places five seven places. So, these are like the main target customers are early adopters of the product right. So, we have gone ahead made sure that we are acquiring them and how to acquire them just we have gone ahead, the education was missing in the market. So, we have used platform such as Quora, such as Reddit, such as Twitter, in order to make sure that we are going ahead we are communicating with these people. That was first thing how we have gone from maybe 10k to maybe 100k users after that we have understood that yes, we were listening to the customers, they were also suggesting are some features, okay, and we were going ahead and interacting with them on various platforms such as Reddit, such as Quora, such as Twitter that I’ve already talked about, given taking ideas from those, we were now able to understand that what is the nerve of the market, what is the source of the market isn’t what the market wants from us, then we have gone ahead iterated on that particular field, but, and then we have opened other channels, when we have gone ahead and optimize a our app for the Play Store for the right keywords, we have made sure that the functionality of So, it was very difficult for you to go ahead to switch from a regular mutual fund to a direct mutual fund for example. So, like, the market was definitely needing some kind of transparency, we were the first to bring it and once we have brought it then users have followed. So, we have what just we have done is we have created enough channels, so that we can listen to our customer feedback, we were iterating on that feedback very quickly, and we have opened multiple channels, so that we can go ahead and give out like the finished product to the users and that is how we have grown about 60 70% of our grown at my when I was having like when I was in that company, it was from organic. Yeah, all the same kind of stuff

 

Pushpak Mundre

awesome. So, you tried these channels like Quora Reddit, and like, like mostly I think people they go on LinkedIn directly, but I think How did you figure that out that your target audience is already on this channel? So especially people who was like net worth of 50 lakh. So was there any way you figured that out

 

Ankit  

Yes. So, initially, it was 50 lakh rupees, but when like for as I told you, like for 50k 100k it was easier to find these kinds of people, because the margin that we are talking about or the order like the audience that we are talking about is like very small. But after that what we have done is we are able to understand that yes, if we are if you have to make sure that app is usable by more number of people, we have to reduce that particular kind of threshold okay. So, we have came to 25 lakh as well. And then we have gone ahead and understood what are the kind of YouTube channels that the people are looking at? And what are the kind of what are the kinds of channels that they follow in terms of what are the spaces that they follow on Quora, what are the sub Reddits that they follow what is popular out there, and we have taken content clues from there. And then we have created the content. And also like one of the major pillar of our growth has been Twitter, we have made sure that we are vocal on Twitter and everyone who goes ahead and suggests something about the product, we are going to take their feedback and we are going to actually our product manager is actually going to go ahead and maybe talk to them. And our CEO was always like he made sure that he’s always at the top of all of the things that are happening on social media, so that we also have a clue about what is happening and how to take the product for work

 

Pushpak Mundre

So basically, like, whenever we are building a new product from the scratch, so like you have to find platforms like Quora and Reddit or any platform where we can engage with our customers. So like once once you start talking to them so you can understand what what kind of problems they’re solving, what kind of problems they’re having. And you’re our job is to not like give solutions to them. So that’s how we grow our product and That makes sense, right? That’s what you guys kind of do

 

Ankit 

Yes, yes, yes. So, but, but I will tell you that it is not it is not true that for everything you can go ahead and look like for any kind of product, you can go into this company because it there will be some kind of product where Quora is going to work, there has to be some kind of product that it is not going to work. Okay. So for example, when I was a she rose, okay, this didn’t work, okay, so my main mental model, or my main main, like, my main concept to grow any kind of company is that first of all, understand the user, understand the channels where they are engaging. Once you have understood make sure how you can make sure that whatever they are talking about on the channel, you can go ahead and educate about them how they’re how your product can help you help them in that particular kind of problem, or, like going ahead and navigating into that particular kind of situation, if you can do this that can be done for IND money, the people who are on Quora, the people who are on Reddit, while for she rose, the people who are a different kind of platform, so people were, it was a mobile app only for women. So we have to go ahead and work with these offline communities such as this Sati community organ bodies, such as we have also gone ahead and done a partnership with Paytm in order to make sure that they are women users are looking at our feet and they are also coming to a platform. So channel can differ communication can differ USB can differ, but you always have to start from the user, if you start from the user, the chances are very low that you are going to fail if you like listen enough to them.

 

Pushpak Mundre 

So you find like you know, you find this you’re like customers by like by only experimenting, right? So you found out that the IND money customers, they are on Reddit and quota basically and there’s another company’s customers, they are not on the Indian culture, they are on the platform. So you find it by experimenting only right, you just don’t know it.

 

How to find your target audience

 

Ankit 

Yeah. So, first of all, you have to articulate what could be we call it like ideal customer profiles or sometime also known as user personas in product management. So first of all, you start with that, okay, you would have some kind of assumptions, okay, then go ahead, talk to some kind of user, you are also going to get some kind of don’t talk about solutions, talk about what they want to do in your life, what their goals are, then you’re able then you will be able to understand what are the platforms that they use, okay. So, for example, at Intuit we have a platform where people can go ahead and they can learn about any kind of language and also they can practice the questions okay. So, here we are going to go to the year we are going to find that whatever other resources that you follow, they have said that I was using XYZ resource then we are going to find them, why do we use it? What was the reason why we have came to that platform, how we use it, okay, then from these questions, other kinds of other kinds of things are going to arrive and they are going to automatically tell you where they are looking for the solution like what is the platform where they are looking for advice?

 

Pushpak Mundre  

Got it. So, what does a career in product management looks like? Like suppose if I started as a product manager right now, like by enrolling to any courses, like hello PM, or what after five, five years of being a product manager, how does my journey and growth looks like in terms of my career and all

 

How does a career in product management looks like

 

Ankit 

yeah, so right now, I would say like, it depends from company to company and also since like, it’s getting popular like product management getting more and more popular, but teams do not have like a right career ladder, I would say a known career ladder like okay, because we see that people who have about two years of experience, they are also product managers, people who have seven eight of affiliates, they are also known as product managers, it actually depends on company, but we have to simplify that answer, it would be like in an ideal companies should be as follows. So, first you become a product analyst or you become a APM or you become a business analyst APM for Associate Product Manager from there. So, with maybe a one year of experience couple of experience, you go ahead and you become a product manager, where you work as an individual contributor, make sure that you are leading a particular part or feature then after that, you become a senior product manager some more kind of responsibilities, how do you transition from Product Manager to senior product manager that depends on like the performance cycle of the company, and the thing that you have been working on. And even if you like go ahead and switch into companies as then that can also happen quickly. Once you become a senior product manager, then you can become principal product manager, group product manager, and then eventually you can either become director of product management or maybe vice vice president product or maybe a CPU as well, which is chief product officer. So, this is the career ladder but but having said that, like there is like no, we have seen that there is no kind of like no kind of structure that is there in the industry right now. At least if you need the, like top 100 200 companies got

 

Pushpak Mundre 

So what makes someone excellent product managers like there are what are the top three skills which should make you a great product manager?

 

what makes someone excellent product managers

 

Ankit  

Okay, okay, so I’ll tell you, actually, I would say like as every other answer, it actually depends on the person it actually depends on the profile. It actually depends on the company. But if I have to simplify it for you, there are three things that absolutely every product manager needs to have. One is the collaboration skill, you should be able to go ahead and understand what it takes in order to collaborate with different kinds of people. Second is a communication skill, which is also an extension of collaboration because if you don’t know how to communicate, you will not be able to collaborate and third is the problem solving skills or the or the tendency to step back from the solutions, look at the problem in detail and then going ahead and breaking down the problem into smaller parts, making solution of the part and then going ahead and combining the solution that is also known as pragmatic thinking. So collaboration, communication and pragmatic thinking. This is like the foundation, other things you can build based on it, which is like, it also transforms into leadership, it also transforms into problem solving. There could be other kinds of things, you can also develop on them. But the basics remain the same.

 

Pushpak Mundre 

Yeah. So I think you mentioned problem solving before as well, like, so is how do you build a product mindset? So when, you know, when it comes to building a product mindset, like does the problems always kill comes on the top? Is it a foundation of it?

 

Ankit 

 Yeah, so I would say like, actually, it’s not product solving skills, it is actually empathy. And what I mean by that, is that can you think for the user, okay, what happens is that, first of all, you have to in, I would say, like product management should be renamed as user management, because you should first think from the users side. Okay, before asking about what you are building, how you’re building it, how’s it going to work? How you’re going to create it, you should first ask who you are building it for? How is it going to help them? Is it even needed or not? So then you go ahead and take other kinds of stuff, and productivity is nothing, you just start from the user, first you start from the user, then you understand their problems, once you have understood this problem, you have to understand what are the problems which are important for them, which are the problems which are not important for them, then you go ahead and try to build out like multiple solutions for the problem that we have talked about, then you prioritize these kind of solutions. And then you go ahead and understand if you have created a solution, how you’re going to measure whether it is successful or not. So this is overall like a gist of what product thinking is just aside from the user, then you’re already on a path of product

 

Pushpak Mundre 

thinking. Yeah, so I feel like product management is more like experimentation, like you have to experiment and then find out if it’s working or not. Does that make sense? Yeah,

 

Is product management about experimentation

 

Ankit   

I would say I would say like, it’s easier to say this way as in like product anymore about experimentation. Because if you’re only doing experimentation, and if you’re not aware about the time or the resources that is going to take, then it is not going to reflect very much good on you as a product manager or your because if you know that if for example, Microsoft is a company, if they are experimenting so much with their product, there’s so many people who are using it, they’re facing these kinds of So, that doesn’t happen in theory, it looks good, like you are experimenting and you are growing, but you have to be very pragmatic, which is like the third thing that I mentioned about you should know, why you are doing that experiment, how is it going to how you can reduce the risk on that experiment. If you are able to do it, if you are able to take data back decisions, if you are able to collaborate with people and take multiple opinions at at once and maybe know how to go through and make sure that you are able to ship it quicker then that is product management. Problem solving is yes, it’s a skill, experimentation skill is a skill it is needed you have to do a lot of experimentation, but it is not to that you always have to do experimentation, you always do should be like your idea should not be half baked, you should go ahead do some kind of research that is yours.

 

Pushpak Mundre 

So like till the time we find the right product market fit I think at that time you can kind of stop maybe experimenting on that thing and then you can once you find something Yeah, this is happening. So you can keep doing it basically.

 

Ankit

Yeah, I think that will also be like it will be it will be back to generalize it because what happens is that some of the time, people are not getting product market fit because they are experimenting too much. So for example, I have gone ahead, I have created this particular kind of product, okay, this is for this particular kind of user. So rather than making sure that it is solving a problem, and just iterating on the features, I’m just iterating on the colors or the UI or something, what you are experimenting about is very much essential, okay, you have to experiment about whether this problem is right or not, whether people are facing that problem or not, you can iterate on the solution, but you have to first make sure that a problem is there, if you are solving a problem that does not exist or that is not important from the user, no man, no matter how many experiments you do in the solution, it is not going to work out first make sure that the product is working. And even after you get the product market fit, you have to understand what are the kinds of experiments that you are doing? What is important for your company at that period of time. So product mindset is something that is going to help you out experimentation is just to guard it, you cannot justify your your failures or wastage of resources, just because you can tell that yes, this is an experiment that we have done. But if this is true, so real product managers, they don’t do it.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

It makes sense. So what kind of challenges do you face as a product manager on day to day day to day basis? And how do you overcome them?

 

Challenges as a product manager

 

Ankit 

Yeah, so I think there are a lot of them, and most of them arise from the cross communication and the cross collaboration that happens within the team. Okay, so the major challenge is going ahead and making sure that everyone is on the same page, okay. And if as a product manager, you’re able to do this nicely, then I would say half of your work is done. Half of your work is to make sure that you are going ahead and solving the right kind of problem in the right kind of way. Okay. So tabulating with people making sure that everyone is on the same page when your team is so bigger, it is definitely a challenge to see in a product manager. Second thing is you have to be good at people management, which is also an extension of collaboration. If you are bad at people management, if you don’t know how to operate across people how to navigate the situation that is going to be challenging for you. And thought could be, I think, like changing responsibilities because you know, when you’re working in any kind of digital product, your priorities are going to be you are going to get changed, okay. And since as a product manager, you are a very pragmatic person, you would always want to have a clear roadmap, as in this is, these are the, this is our roadmap, I’m going to do it for six months, but then practically it is not going to happen, although you might have to spend money by month in order to just create that roadmap, but reality would be a bit different. So you should be accommodating. So, you should be flexible, and you should be very good with collaboration, these are the like, like, these are the strengths of a product manager, but it is not done well. This can also become like a challenge very, very quick.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

So there are so you have been in touch with a lot of product managers, by working with multiple companies and also to help pm right. So what are the things that most of the product managers are doing wrong? Which you have observed? Is there anything like that, like?

 

what are those few things which most product managers are doing wrong

 

Ankit  

Yeah, I think the one obvious thing that we we find in like in very beginner product, beginner level product manager is that jump to the solutions, okay. So whenever they think that yes, we have to do something they are, they will go ahead and they will try to create assumption, they will try to grid wireframe, they’ll try to do some kind of experimentation and all, that is not what you have to you have to first make sure that there is an evidence that this problem exists. So your problem is going to remain the same, your solutions can differ, okay, so make sure that whether you like you need to learn to take how to you need to learn to know understand how to take a back step, how to go ahead and make sure that you are solving the right kind of problem. So jumping to solution is one of the problems that I have observed across early early PMS. And for the senior PMS, I have seen that in early PMs And most of the time, what happens is that they are moving from some other kind of rule into product management, okay, as an they are moving from a development role, or from a sales role or from a marketing role. Other kinds of roles, what they do is what they forget is that now they have to leave that job aside. And they have to do a work of a product manager. So if you’re moving from a technical role, to a product management role, you are not supposed to code, you don’t have to give your opinion every time to the engineering manager just because your work is something else. I’m not saying that it is going to harm me, but it is going to shift your focus your focus should be on the user, your focus should be on the on the business. And the third thing that I see like that mistake, like I also make most of the times, and that is I will say like with some pragmatism and self self awareness, I would be able to like cater to it. That is we think that as product managers, our responsibility is to ship features, that is completely wrong. Our responsibility is to ship outcomes for our customers and our users. Once that mindset is changed, then you will see that you are you are going ahead and your your team, your team dynamics, everything that you do will change and it will be more impactful. So shift your focus from just being a feature factory to an outcome factory, make sure that you’re delivering outcomes to your users. And for that you have to build feature, or maybe you have to sometimes not build features also

 

Pushpak Mundre 

makes sense. So especially I think, when people jump to, you know, directly solutions this could apply to like entrepreneurs, and I think that this kind of thing we can, you know, it could apply to our life as well. Like maybe if you’re going through some personal problems, and you directly jump onto solutions, or as an entrepreneur, you directly jump onto solutions. I think that could help.

 

Ankit 

Yes, yes. So actually, what happens is, whatever bad habits we have, or whatever good ever, or whatever good habits we have, they are because of the evolution, okay, so your personal habits are reflected on your work. So in our personal habit, whenever like someone someone is hitting us, in our personal life, someone is hitting us, or someone is getting offensive at us, our main or main like response to it is to get defensive, or maybe fight or flight response, okay, we are just copying same kind of thing that had been given us because of evolution to product management as well. And that does not work. So you have to maybe learn to take a step backward and then observe the situation and then make sure that whatever you are doing it is going to impact so many lives, because you are the product manager, you literally own the product and whatever people are using the product, they are going to get affected and your resource could also be wasted.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

Okay, makes sense. So how does so like it’s been two years like since a pandemic started. So how how are you working Like remotely? How does product team work remotely? Basically, and how was your experience basically, like the will when you’re working from home and like when you’re working from office and how was it like when you’re working from home?

 

How does product team work remotely

 

Ankit  

Yeah, so I think it has been easier for me at least because of the kinds of people that I have been working with okay. So remote or non remote, it actually depends on the kind of composition that you have, rather than the work that you are doing. Okay. For example, my my engagement at IND money is with people who are marketers is with people who are developers is with my users. Okay, can I connect with them offline? can I connect with them online? can I connect with them? Definitely. Yes, I can. So that was easier for me and also we have created some process to make sure that people are not burning out because there is like, there is no cutoff time as in when you are in office. You have to join the office at 11 That is when you come and you can turn off your computer that will be seven or eight that is possible. But in these kinds of scenarios and online, that is not possible. So, as company, we have to take conscious decisions as leaders product leader, we have to be conscious decision that we are giving enough room to our people, we have to acknowledge and understand that they have a personal life as well now, which is mingle with their professional life. So if you are acknowledging that, I think it should be easier people want to work from home like i don’t i It doesn’t matter, like what people see on LinkedIn, whether they want to return office or not. But deep down, we know that some some or the other part of us wants to remain at home and maybe enjoy the lifestyle that we are already doing and maybe save a bit of money in travelling.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. So when it comes to, you know, product leadership, like how to how to become a better product leaders? Like how do you manage your team in a better way? And especially like, I have observed that, like, product management is a tough task. It’s not an easy job, basically. Right? So there could be some in some companies, there could be a toxic culture and all kinds of stuff. So how do you have a how do you build a good culture as well? How do we become a better product leaders?

 

How to  become a better product leader

 

Ankit  

Yeah, I would say this, this leadership skill like it is, it is true for engineering leaders as well, product leaders as well. And for other kinds of general leaders. Okay. So first of all, as a product leader, you have to understand that your responsibility is now your first of all, when you are an individual contributor, your responsibility was an outcome, or a KPI, right, or maybe a kind of product improvement that you have to do. But now your main KPI is to make sure that your people are getting successful, as successful as possible. Now it is your responsibility. If you think from that angle, then things are going to be easier for you. As a product leader, I would say that if you know that there are direct reports to you make sure that you are articulating your one on ones really nicely, they should know what they’re supposed to do. They should know like what their career graph is going to look like. People don’t want that they don’t want to work in a company where they don’t see growth. So if you are have laid down a good plan for them, that is very good. And generally go ahead and empathize with people, people want to go ahead. Since we are social animals, we want to connect, we want to talk about things that are not related to work schedule. So whenever you start the call, you should make sure that you are doing some kind of talks, who has to make them feel at home. And these kinds of things I would say but just make sure that you are detaching yourself from the job that you have been doing in the past. And making sure that leadership skill is itself, it is not making sure that your business is achieving outcomes or users are getting what they want. But it is more about making sure that your people are happy, because when people are happy, they are going to do the best work of their lives.

 

Pushpak Mundre 

That makes sense. Yeah. So would you recommend any top three books on Product Manager suppose someone who wants to get into product management so what kind of books they should get?

 

Fav Books

 

Ankit    

Right, so in terms of book, I would say like I’m not much into books, okay, I have read books, I’ve read books, but I’m not much into books. So I generally don’t recommend books, but some that I have read I can maybe recommend. So, these are not directly related product management, but they can definitely help you get a better thinking mindset and that is all product management is all about. So, first book, I would recommend is I think Thinking Fast and Slow, which is about how do you think about certain kinds of situations in your life and how do you make sure that when when what are the decision that you should take quickly, what are the decisions that you should take a step back that will help you out in product management? Second is I think it is Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. So it lays down seven habits which are like very important, it is going to help you in your personal life also. And third is our principles. Okay. So principles is like, is like this textbook, which has been written by Ray Dalio, which talks about how do you create How do you understand from your past experiences? How do you create like a good environment within your company, so that it is based on meritocracy, rather than people being favorites of each other. So, that is also going to help you create a good very good culture, which is based on meritocracy and help you like understand that whenever you are difficult situation, how to think about it. So it can help you in system things thinking.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

Sure. So are there any tools or resources which you could recommend? For product managers? Yeah,

 

Tools and resources for PM

 

Ankit    

yeah. So I would say for product idea, first of all, you should start with first principles, understand what first principles are, if you have understood what first principles are, if you start practicing in your daily life, not only with product management, but in your general life, also you are going to become a better individual. And then definitely you are going to go ahead and become a better product manager. So at Hello pm blog, we have a very good guide on first principles for product managers, you can start from there. Apart from this, there are so many resources out there. Okay, so if you search for awesome product management on GitHub, you are going to find a list of resources, like it is a GitHub link where you are going to find so many resources which could be helpful for you as a product manager. Apart from this, make sure that you follow the product management subreddit, on on Reddit that is going to help you out as well people go come here and discuss like every kind of thing out there. Apart from this there are so many YouTube channels that you can search for. But make sure that you’re not like containing so much junk into your mind. implement things also not communicate only the knowledge not going to have that product management is about doing things it is about understanding the situations and solving.

 

Pushpak Mundre  

So how can I listeners enrol, PM if they want to.

 

Ankit  

Yeah, so you can definitely go have it go ahead and go to hell opm.co. And there is an application form, you can fill it, we make sure that we are screening each and every candidate, because we want to make sure that since we only take around 3035 People in the candidate, we want to make sure that we are taking people who can get the best advantage, and they also have like a fit with our company. So we are going to do a screening call in that screening call, we can make sure that so once they apply, they are going to get an invitation for the screening call. In that screening call, we are going to make sure that this course can definitely help them out. And only if that helps them out, we are going to recommend that to them. And they are we are going to take it ahead and the court is like very one on one very live driven so that we made sure that no matter what kind of background you are coming from, we will make sure that you are going out as a better product manager, at least with producting.

 

Pushpak Mundre 

Awesome. Amazing. So thank you so much. And it was really great talking to you. I think we got a lot of insights and how to become product manager in the light short amount of time. Like I think this is a anyone who wants to become a product manager. This is the I think a good resource to start with. And they can of course get in touch with you or help em to get to know more about it. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah.

 

Ankit 

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for having me.